[Bloodybirds]

My sympathies go out to all there and it reminds me greatly of what happened at my school UT forty years ago and what happened at my brother NB's school Texas A&M in 1999 with the bonfire...by the way, NB, classy move on your school's part to play taps in the VTech's honor of their students today....not surprising your former school would do that, congrats from a Longhorn!

I believe there has to be better emergency procs, shocking that in a post 9/11 society better methods of notification are not present. From a world perspective, very hard for the American government to voice strident opposition to violence in Iraq when we cannot control it here! WE are already known as the most violent society in the world...whether true or not. If you look at world sites, we are being ridiculed today!

This person being from South Korea and an engineering student himself...hmmm....something perhaps to do with North Korea or other political issues in the Koreas, or simply a disturbed young man not able to handle the pressures or offended by someone at the school? At this point, again shows what a dedicated person with a good weapon can do. In all honesty, someone like this is hard to stop and the police I think did what they could, other than the VTech admin perhaps having a better system of notification. However, look at other campuses, similar disconnects. Find it very ironic in the communication age that there was such a seeming lack of communication.

Samurai, this must really be affecting you since you live that way. As a parent and as a citizen, I am both shocked and greatly sympathetic to the parents. May their children who lost their lives be blessed, and the wounded healed during this time.

My fellow martial artists, most of us study the human mind as well as physical attainment. But this is baffling to me. I hope good comes of this.

[BLACK PANTA]

Originally Posted by nbotary

PANTA?!?!?! Where the hell have you been?!?!?!

If you're talking about the right to bare arms, that's actually the 2nd Amendment. The 1st Amendment is for freedom of speech.

I haven't heard any news reports of them discussing Islam or Muslim's. Where did you heard that???

been around bro....maad busy now. yeah I did mean the 2nd sorry. It wasn't a news report really. I listen to coast to coast am on occasion and the guest they had on HAD to mention it.

[BLACK PANTA]

Originally Posted by Bloodybirds

My sympathies go out to all there and it reminds me greatly of what happened at my school UT forty years ago and what happened at my brother NB's school Texas A&M in 1999 with the bonfire...by the way, NB, classy move on your school's part to play taps in the VTech's honor of their students today....not surprising your former school would do that, congrats from a Longhorn!

I believe there has to be better emergency procs, shocking that in a post 9/11 society better methods of notification are not present. From a world perspective, very hard for the American government to voice strident opposition to violence in Iraq when we cannot control it here! WE are already known as the most violent society in the world...whether true or not. If you look at world sites, we are being ridiculed today!

This person being from South Korea and an engineering student himself...hmmm....something perhaps to do with North Korea or other political issues in the Koreas, or simply a disturbed young man not able to handle the pressures or offended by someone at the school? At this point, again shows what a dedicated person with a good weapon can do. In all honesty, someone like this is hard to stop and the police I think did what they could, other than the VTech admin perhaps having a better system of notification. However, look at other campuses, similar disconnects. Find it very ironic in the communication age that there was such a seeming lack of communication.

Samurai, this must really be affecting you since you live that way. As a parent and as a citizen, I am both shocked and greatly sympathetic to the parents. May their children who lost their lives be blessed, and the wounded healed during this time.

My fellow martial artists, most of us study the human mind as well as physical attainment. But this is baffling to me. I hope good comes of this.

see there's the problem with society, everyone's got an excuse to do something bad. No one every takes responsibility for anything anymore. So what he had issues, people deal with issues that are way more pressing in better ways. He is to blame plain and simple. No excuses.

[zefff]

Yes but if he didnt have access to firearms this wouldnt have happened. Maybe one or two persons might have died but never 33. The citizens of America have little self control and the government has little control over the citizens so you all are to blame because nothing will change and this will happen again. The future is bleak and its always the innocents who suffer.

[nbotary]

I'm going to throw this out not as a defense of the VTech administration, but more as a point of relevance that we are failing to look at...

Everyone is throwing their hands up and saying, "Why did it take so long to notify the students/teachers???" Let's look at the facts that are in front of us shall we...

VTech has a student population of @ 24K students, making it one of the largerst in the country. At 7:15 in the morning, how many of those students do you think are actually going to be on campus??? Of those who are on campus, how many do you think you're going to be able to reach to give a warning???

To receive an e-mail, you have to be logged into a computer somewhere and either be in your e-mail or set up to receive e-mail notification. Again, out of 24K students, how many of them do you think were online at 7:15 in the morning???

Most college classes do not start until 8:00 in the morning. How many of those 24K students do you think were in their cars on the way to class, looking for a parking spot, walking or riding a bike to class??? How do you suppose you could warn them???

Everyone is asking, "Why aren't there more security gaurds?!?!?!" News flash - most universities provide UN-ARMED security in order to protect themselves and the students from someone obtaining their firearm. What do you think would've happened had an un-armed security guard come upon the shooter??? How do you think he would've stopped him - with a spitball?!?!? Maybe he could've just said, "Halt, or I'll write you a ticket for trespassing!!!" Seriously, campus "police" are a joke. He too would've ended up on the victim list.

Let's say the administration was able to notify students and teachers and it caused a panic. Then what??? What if the shooter heard the notice, changed plans, and headed for a building with an auditorium of 300+ students when the lockdown occurred??? What if he got into that building before it was locked down?!?!? Yes, this is a hypothetical situation, but it's still something that people are failing to look at. Again, this is a devastating and terrible tragedy. BUT, it could've been much worse - especially if the above hypothetical situation happened.

It's real easy for us to be critical of the VTech administration before the dust has settled. Do I think some mistakes were made??? Absolutely. However, I also think they did the best they could under the situation. Right now, we as the general public need to stand behind the administration and offer and show our support to them and the families that were affected. Let them handle their investigation and offer up the results and THEN we can start throwing stones.

I would like to go on record as saying I think it's pretty fucked up that a Korean national, registered as a legal alien, is able to purchase a gun AND be approved for it, when I, an American born citizen with no criminal record, would have to go through an extensive background search just to be approved to purchase a firearm AND wait an additional 7-10 days before I could take possesion of said firearm!!! Gun control laws in the US are SOOOO fucked up thanks to everyone abusing the shit out of the 2nd Amendment...

[Triple T]

From the US Dept. of Justice: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/htus02.htm

A brief quotation: "The percentage of homicides involving multiple victims increased gradually from about 3% of all homicides in 1976 to almost 5% in 2002."

Obviously, the logistics of such a massive statistical analysis means that we can't get newer data, but I sincerely doubt the trend is dramatically different over the past five years.

In conclusion, despite the hype, we have bigger fish to fry. Stop the sympathy for the rare, maybe we'll solve some common problems.

For once.

[Gazelle]

Originally Posted by Triple T

From the US Dept. of Justice: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/htus02.htm

A brief quotation: "The percentage of homicides involving multiple victims increased gradually from about 3% of all homicides in 1976 to almost 5% in 2002."

Obviously, the logistics of such a massive statistical analysis means that we can't get newer data, but I sincerely doubt the trend is dramatically different over the past five years.

In conclusion, despite the hype, we have bigger fish to fry. Stop the sympathy for the rare, maybe we'll solve some common problems.

For once.

Indeed, but, there is nothing wrong with having a bit of sympathy for such things. It would seem most disrespectful, having heard of it not to take some notice.

You'll also note, people take more notice of such events, because you don't always hear of them happening. Common problems, on the other hand, are always there, they've become part of your way of life, so, generally, i guess people will have less of a tendancy to analyse it.

[dscott]

Originally Posted by BLACK PANTA

He is to blame plain and simple. No excuses.

What about his parents? I'd like to hear about his childhood and how his relationship was with his parents.

[zefff]

Originally Posted by Gazelle

Indeed, but, there is nothing wrong with having a bit of sympathy for such things. It would seem most disrespectful, having heard of it not to take some notice.

You'll also note, people take more notice of such events, because you don't always hear of them happening. Common problems, on the other hand, are always there, they've become part of your way of life, so, generally, i guess people will have less of a tendancy to analyse it.

thanks for clearing that up for us Gazelle.

"Disrespectful" to who?

Des is right though, how many combined MDK's by firearm occured across the US that day?...less than 33?

Also, how many students will now think about securing a firearm on campus as 'protection'?

[nbotary]

You know, one of my absolute favorite responses to a media question came from singer Marilyn Manson in the wake of the Columbine shootings. As many of you may know, Manson and his music are constantly blamed for the increasing rise in teen aggression and the general public tried to make him and his music the scapegoat for what happened that terrible day. In any event, a reporter asked him: "If you had a chance to say something to the two shooters, what would you say?"

Manson's response: "Nothing. I would just listen to them."

The sad thing is that this kid at VTech had obviously been crying for help through his creative writings. His teachers had even pointed out that they addressed it with him and recommended he seek counseling. However, what we don't know is whether or not his parents were notified. If they knew, why didn't they step up and do something about it??? I also want to know whether or not he had a good relationship with his parents.