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05-03-2004, 02:05 AM
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Man this is like information overload, wich is a very good thing. There is soo much valuable info on here, that i think i just soiled myself. This is exactly what I wanted. Not only to list the styles and arts, but to discuss about them, share info, teach, learn, ask questions. This is a really great source thread. excuse me I have to use the bathroom, theres somethin in my eye.
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05-03-2004, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BLACK PANTA
...i think i just soiled myself.
Somebody get the kitty-litter!

Glad you like this thread, Panta - I've found it very informative myself, and I think of it as an online shopping site with tantalising photos of stuff I want to get
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05-03-2004, 04:53 AM
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Sorry Panta for the late reply. It's Golden Week here (which means everyone gets a week's holiday) so I've been very busy with drinking, smoking and general revellry! I'll try and define all the styles I listed. Some people have done a great job of defining some of them already, but rather than go through the entire thread to check which ones have already been defined, I'll just do the whole lot! Here goes.

Koryu Bujutsu
Jujutsu (aka yawara, yawaragi, yawarajutsu, taijutsu, koshi no mawari kogusoku, koshi no mawari, kogusoku, kumiuchi, hade, aikijujutsu, aikijutsu, shuhaku, judo, wajutsu, toritejutsu, torite, etc.) - close quarter combat, usually grappling based, either unarmed or armed with a close quarter weapon e.g. wakizashi, yoroidoshi, tanto, etc.

Kenjutsu (aka kenpo, gekkenjutsu, gekken, tojutsu, tachijutsu, odachijutsu, kodachijutsu, kendo, bikenjutsu, koshi no mawari, hyoho, heiho, ninjatojutsu, etc.) - art of the sword

Iai (aka iaijutsu, iaido, battojutsu, battodo, batto, etc.) - drawing the sword

Sojutsu - spear

Naginatajutsu - polearm

Bojutsu (aka rokushakubojutsu, jojutsu, hanbojutsu, sanjakubojutsu, tanjojutsu, etc.) - stickfighting; rokushakubojutsu is the usual 6' staff, jojutsu a 4' staff, hanbojutsu/sanjakubojutsu a 3' staff, tanjojutsu a 1'-2' stick

Tantojutsu - knife fighting; actually not a very common term, most schools including tantojutsu within their jujutsu techniques

Yoroidoshijutsu - knife fighting with the yoroidoshi, a short armour-piercing dagger

Kaikenjutsu - there are actually two styles with this name: one is the use of the kaiken, a small dagger usually kept in the folds of a kimono's sleeve and usually used by women; the other is the use of the Mushahi kaiken, which is a CQC weapon that looks somewhat like an axe blade but instead of a haft it just has a hole cut towards the back of the blade to slip your hand through.

Kabutowarijutsu - using the "helmet splitter" (sounds painful dunnit?), kind of a truncheon-like weapon with a tine used to bash through the opponents helmet or other armour

Saide - an art that combines the use of the katana with jujutsu-type grappling; I think it's unique to the Takenouchi Ryu curriculum

Tettojutsu - using the tetto, a truncheon that looks very much like a blunt tanto

Tessenjutsu - combat with the iron fan

Juttejutsu - using the jutte, a tined truncheon, usually used by law enforcement but occassionally used on the battlefield

Jittejutsu - the art of the jitte, usually an off-hand weapon consisting of a spear head with a cross bar, sometimes built to be folding

Kusarijutsu - any art that uses a chain or chain-based weapon

Kamajutsu - combat with a plain old sickle

Kusaribojutsu - the art of the chigiriki, a 3' staff with a ball and chain attached to one end

Shurikenjutsu - throwing blades; contrary to popular belief, not always star shaped; dart-like blades were more commonly used, some ryuha use full-size aikuchi and other knives

Tekkenjutsu - the good ol' knuckleduster (my fave! )

Mijinjutsu - a rare style that uses three weighted chains connected at one end by an iron ring; it could be used in CQC but could also be thrown to entangle, like a bolas

Sasumatajutsu - combat with an ensnaring weapon, uses a polearm with a sort of semi-circular top used to pin and subdue your adversary

Gekiganjutsu - rare art that uses a ball and chain; never seen it in action but it always conjures up images of Gogo in Kill Bill

Koppojutsu - see jlambvo's excellent definition

Kosshijutsu - as above

Kyushojutsu - as above

Toamijutsu - fighting with the humble fishnet

Nageyarijutsu - use of a short throwing spear/javelin, usually about 3'-4' in length

Ishinage - the art of stone throwing; probably a precursor to shurikenjutsu; very common during the Genpei War

Suieijutsu - techniques for swimming in armour and combat in water

Hojutsu - firearms; usually referred to using a harquebus but could also mean anything up to full-blown mortars and cannon

Karumijutsu - the art of leaping

Hojojutsu - rope tying techniques: consists of two parts, one being the formal tying up of prisoners, the second body of techniques being used actually in grappling to subdue and tie up the opponent

Bajutsu - horsemanship

Kyujutsu - archery

Yabusame - mounted archery

Sumai - a form of wrestling and the forerunner of sumo; a lot more violent and more complete and the fight didn't end when one guy touched the ground: stomping the opponent was perfectly legal

Ninjutsu - techniques of espionage, spying and guerilla warfare; practicing ninjutsu does not neccessarily make you a ninja

Gendai Budo
Karate (aka karatedo, karatejutsu, toudijutsu, todejutsu, tode, te, etc.) - techniques of unarmed combat with Okinawan roots

Judo - Kano Jigoro's eclectic grappling school, based mainly on several koryu jujutsu ryuha

Aikido - Ueshiba Morihei's "refinement" of Daito Ryu aikijujutsu

Kendo - sportive form of kenjutsu using armour and a bamboo sword ("shinai")

Kyudo - modern school of kyujutsu

Naginatado - sportive form of naginatajutsu, using armour and a wooden polearm; common sport in schools but usually only taught to girls

Jodo - a modern school of jojutsu

Jukendo - similar to kendo and naginatado, a sport but based on rifle-and-bayonet combat

Tankendo - a relation of jukendo, sport combat based on using a short sword or dismounted bayonet

Shorinji kenpo - school of combat founded by Doshin So; he always alleged that it was based on Shaolin techniques he learnt in China (it translates as "Shaolin Temple boxing") but in 1972 Japanese courts ruled that it was no such thing and was most likely a combination of Wado Ryu karate and Hakko Ryu jujutsu, so since then it's been a legal requirement to call it "Nippon Shorinji kenpo".

Nippon kenpo - combat sport founded in 1932 by Muneumi Sawayama; a bit ahead of its time, contestants wear armour but techniques at all ranges are permitted; point-based competition but strikes, throws, knockdowns and locks and holds are all scoring techniques

Sumo - modern version of sumai; a lot more civilised but surprisingly complex: not just fat guys in nappies shoving each other

Sports chanbara - modern combat sport, inspired by kendo, etc. but contestants use padded weapons and little armour, with divisions for sword, sword and shield, spear, staff, knife and others

Shootboxing - Cesar Takeshi's kickboxing-based sport, which also allows standing grappling and throwing and takedown techniques

Taihojutsu - police arrest techniques, now also taught to civilians as a system of self defence
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05-03-2004, 05:41 AM
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Hengest: Nice! I really love how the Japanese turn every single thing into a formal art for study

By the way, is the kabutowari by any chance the forerunner to the jutte? I remember you telling me something of the sort a while back and, now that you mention it, they sound really similar. Also, I think Kukishinden-ryu kenjutsu includes saide training, but I couldn't be sure - a friend of mine mentioned 'grappling while swordfighting' in relation to it, but looking at some of the tricks he's used on me before (like thrusting at my face and then stepping on my foot while I take a step back ), it seems likely. What's Takenouchi-ryu saide like?
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05-03-2004, 11:46 AM
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Hammerhead: Yeah I know what you mean. You know the Japanese though, everything's gotta be organised!

The kabutowari could well be a forerunner of the jutte. The tine is usually smaller, almost incidental, and the "blade" is usually thinner and has a downward curve to it, but the similarity can't be denied.

I think a lot of koryu schools have sword grappling on the curriculum, but it's usually done with a wakizashi and is normally called something like kumiuchi, kogusoku koshi no mawari, kogusoku or just plain old jujutsu. I think Takenouchi Ryu is one of the few that teaches to grapple while using a full-size katana, and I'm pretty sure it's the only one to call it saide. Enshin Ryu teaches a similar thing, but they call it kumiuchi kenden.

Unfortunately I've never seen saide in action, I've only read about it. Maybe I'll make it to the next koryu budo enbu taikai and then I can fill you in on the details!
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05-03-2004, 12:01 PM
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Interesting stuff! Yeah, the grappling with the full-sized sword was what I was referring to - I was viewing Kukishinden Happo Biken on tape several years back and was immediately struck by the down-and-dirty stuff they had. A lot of caught steel, small, tricky body movements and downright dirty ( ) moves at close range, as opposed to the technical cleanness one usually expects from koryu waza, like what one sees in Katori Shinto ryu. They probably call it by a different name, of course, but I think it's pretty much the same thing in concept and execution. Kukishinden is known to be a survival-oriented style that pulls out all the stops to pull the curtains shut on an opponent.

Please do tell us what went down if you make it to the next convention - I'm sure it'll be very informative
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05-03-2004, 12:05 PM
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That's interesting what you say about Kukishinden ryu. I wasn't aware it had saide-type stuff. I'll have to look into it a bit more. Or maybe jlambvo can tell us more.
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05-03-2004, 12:09 PM
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He probably could, guv - he IS the resident senior ninja after all

On a remotely related note, behold my new siggie!
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05-03-2004, 12:21 PM
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Damn...I only now figure out that you have to check the box to attach your siggie when posting a message...I'm so smart

The thing that makes me sore is that my previous siggie - "Shagging Corpses in the Name of Science" - went completely unused for weeks! Oh well...there's always next time
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05-04-2004, 12:04 AM
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You know, the description of saide prompted the same thought in me, Hammer; a LOT of the kenjutsu I see in the Bujinkan is performed in grappling range, both in class and in recordings of Hatsumi. I haven't begun practicing much kenjutsu yet; since it is an extension of our taijutsu, it is typical not to pick up the sword for serious study until dan grades (and I'm a fresh one ), so most of my knowledge on it is academic, by observation, or casual practice.

Some of the middle kata for Kukishinden ryu kenjutsu indeed involve "clinching" with the opponent and cutting or throwing him by grappling with the tachi, but I have not practiced any of these yet. More familiar is Shinden Fudo ryu, which has battojutsu "hidden" in its jutaijutsu/dakentaijutsu, the positioning and striking motions are seamlessly sword draws, often followed by locks, chokes, and even throws performed with the long sword blade (suprisingly just as much as the short sword). Sometimes the sword is only partially unsheathed, exposing a limited cutting surface that the opponent is forced across. This is partially demonstrated on the Quest video for Shinden Fudo ryu if you have access to it.

Katana used in grappling is common in Togakure ryu kenjutsu as well, but they used a shorter version of the katana (not the stereotyped straight ninja-to )so it might be more like koryu that used kodachi in grappling. Both Fudo and Takagi Yoshin ryu also make use of the undrawn swords (hilt and scabbard) in grappling.

It's an interesting question, something I'll look into more here.
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