[bamboo]

Do you train in projecting sakki? Also, do you do sensitivity drills of any sort?

-bamboo

[jlambvo]

We don't overtly discuss sakki. There is kiaijutsu in our arts, which I've only been given a small introduction to. I'd be curious if anyone else would agree that kiai is something that kind of happens on its own under proper guidance. The few times it comes up in training is quite profound.

On sakki... during our winter training that I posted pictures of, the last activity we did was a sentry removal technique with knife, basically using a stalk to get behind the partner, how to grab and where to insert the blade. The "sentry" was supposed to turn if he heard the person coming, which was interesting on snow in the woods. On my last turn as sentry, I'm not sure how to explain it but I felt an unusual sensitivity to my partner's presence as he approached, and (without being able to hear him) I spontaneously moved in perfect synchronization with his attack. It was quite a sensation, as if I already knew when I would need to move (or rather, I knew that I WOULD move). I dunno, we talked about it a lot then and I haven't really recaptured it since. For the record, I have no idea if this has ANYTHING to do with sakkijutsu, but its the closest thing *I* have to personal experience.

Sensitivity drills I've done:

1) We do normal training with the lights off from time to time.
2) Partnered exercise: A has his eyes closed, B makes one point of contact (a grab or touch) and slowly launches an attack (punch or standup grappling). A must counter, using only a single point of contact to sense where his attacker's body is. Done softly and slowly. It's quite astounding how quickly you can pick up on the tension in someone's foot by touching his wrist.
3) Two people hold out several light objects (string, a shinai, stuff like that) and different heights and angles. The subject, whos eyes are closed during setup and throughout the exercise, must feel his way through the obstacles without causing any of them to move. You can do something like this on your own, walking through your home or a wooded area with the lights off/eyes closed.
4) One person stands with has back to the others, eyes and ears covered, while the other people silently assume a random position across the room. We did this with only three people total. The subject must then turn and, with eyes and ears still covered, seek out the other people. This sounds kind of froofy I know, but it can be suprising if you follow your instinct.
5) And a little more standard: soft lock-flow/disbalancement from a clinch, strike flow like sticky hands but with some koppojutsu thrown in for a twist.
6) All of the partnered kata are, at their core, sensitivity exercises.

[bamboo]

Thank you very much, it is appreciated.

bamboo

[Wilhelm von Wankenstein]

On another topic entirely, I was re-reading the info on Shinden Fudo-ryu jlambvo sent me and I was struck by a bit that said it was 'suited to individuals of smaller stature'. However, from my admittedly limited experience with Shinden Fudo, I have observed that many of the techniques actually seem custom-made to take advantage of the natural advantages of a large, strong person. Picking an opponent up to bodyslam him hard into the ground, huge, arcing overarm smashes and various striking and infighting techniques that take advantage of bodyweight and 'natural' strength don't exactly spring to mind when one thinks of methods suited to a small man That, and my sensei is a big bloke built like a judoka and he likes Shinden Fudo a lot too.

Not to say that Shinden Fudo isn't technically sophisticated - if anything, it is probably the most aiki of the Bujinkan styles I have encountered so far, but it definitely seems to be a big strong man's aiki, for certain. Many of the stomps and low kicks to an opponent's legs are executed in a way that, at least to me, would be devastating with some bodyweight behind them but would not work too well if executed by a physically light man.

Case in point - my friend who introduced me to taijutsu has used such techniques upon me before and simply stepping into my leg didn't do him much good because he is a tall, lanky sort about half my weight. He had to switch to percussive methods like those used in Koto, Gyokko and Takagi Yoshin ryuha which worked much better against me, and, to my mind, at least, those would be more properly called 'small man' ryuha in that their methods work much better for people of small stature.

My thoughts on my encounters with Shinden Fudo-ryu thus far - any thoughts, anyone?

[jlambvo]

That's an interesting perspective. I don't have much experience with Shinden Fudo ryu either (it is a challenging school for many reasons) but I think part of the reasoning behind that statement is that the dakentaijutsu uses every ounce of your body as leverage behind the techniques, which certainly isn't exclusively useful to smaller people but are valid mechanics nonetheless. A huge overarm smash might be what a small person might need to do to match the jab of a large fighter....?

Example waza (listed as ura version of Gekken): taking an outside wrist-lock within a standing onikudaki shoulder lock, throwing the opponent by leveraging these locks while performing osoto gari, and falling with the opponent on top of his locked wrist with your center of mass. Essentially uses multiple points of leverage to bring down the opponent from a single, central movement, and literally hits with the whole body on a single weak point. In fact, many of the kata call for putting on locks by rolling, which really leverages everything you have into the technique.

I'm not familiar with any technique in this ryu that calls for picking up the opponent and body-slaming him. Could you find and example of this? The closest thing I can think of is the "dragon drop" concept, where in mid-throw you stall the opponent on your body and than pull out from under him, allowing him to free-fall from several feet up (and in an awkard alignment). Even in this case you are usually "catching" him in mid-fall on your hips long enough to stop rotational movement and then moving out again, not directly lifting (though you might "drop" him by standing straight-up, giving a slight lift).

[Wilhelm von Wankenstein]

jlambvo: Sorry about the long delay in replying. Your posts always force me to think long and hard before replying, which means my goldfish-like mind clean forgets the issue at hand within 24 hours

Anyway, regarding the small-man-versus-big-man question of Shinden Fudo and my suspicion that it was designed for big strong boys, I would figure that a small man would be better favoured by fighting methods designed around a lot of percussive power and strikes to sensitive areas that don't require a whole lot of bodyweight to work correctly? Rather than trying to match a larger, stronger opponent power for power, why not try to slip inside his space and poke him in intimate places? For instance, something like Koto-ryu or Gyokko-ryu (at least, as I've seen them), would be quite usable by someone relatively small and light. Koto's long, extended stances and footwork would also allow a relatively small person to move large distances with each step to attack and then duck out of range again without the expenditure of energy that would tire out a larger man quickly. Shinden Fudo is excellent for conserving energy, of course, but in the pure form that I've seen, it's not a ryuha for getting places in a hurry, if you know what I mean

The bodyslam concept in Shinden Fudo-ryu is mainly one waza I'm thinking of, which is a counter to a seioinage counter. It basically involves reaching behind with one's free hand to grab one's opponent's trouser leg and pull diagonally upward to break his root and accomplish the hip-loading, then follow through with the throw. Even though there's plenty of science in this manoeuvre, I still feel it takes an iron grip and a powerful set of legs, back and shoulders to accomplish the initial uprooting with enough speed and force to make it effective. My tall, lanky senpai who introduced me to taijutsu in the first place would certainly have had to use other techniques to uproot in a real fight. Likewise, the Shinden Fudo seioinage counter relies basically on rooting and changing the angle of one's elbows and hips in such a way that one basically slides off an opponent's shoulder. Again, very scientific but reliant on a tremendously powerful root to do right, otherwise an opponent can just 'muscle' the throw in a pinch. No doubt, it makes little difference at master level, but, all things being equal, a larger, stronger man would definitely have the advantage. In contrast, the Koto-ryu counter, which uses a lot of percussive strikes and takes advantage of an opponent's own leverage, could be used by a smaller man to more or less the same advantage as a larger man, IMHO, or perhaps even more, since it is harder to hoist a shorter man up onto one's hips, which gives the defender more time and space to apply the initial palm strike to the thrower's waist/lower back, which is the leverage point for the throw. By comparison, the Shinden Fudo counter seems eminently suited to the problems of taller people, who are easier to hip-load since the waza practically starts from that position.

I know it's a lot to infer from just three case studies, but this is basically the general feel I got from both ryuha. Feel free to shoot me down in flames, as always

[setsu nin to]

Mr. Jlambvo I have one question.

How many time do you spend practicing hand to hand combat and how many time do you spend practicing weapons.
Thanks!

[jlambvo]

Setsu: Our weapons work is built so strongly on the unarmed taisabaki that a majority of our training (through the kyu grades especially) is spent practicing empty handed. Dan grades tend to start using more weapons in training, but often simply inject them into unarmed technique.

One reason for this approach is that Kukishinden ryu is one of the only schools with comprehensive written kata for weapons, but all of the schools are weapon-based despite the fact that many of them have none of it (to my knowledge) written down. You can essentially put weapons in your hands and practice the unarmed kata, specifics being left to kuden.

[setsu nin to]

I agree that kyu ranks shouldnt practice weapons, well maybe just to give them to see how practicing with weapons looks like and whats the feeling. Dan ranks in my opinion, should have 50% of unurmed traning and 50% of urmed traning.

[jlambvo]

Wilhelm, sorry it's taking so long to get responses to you

It's interesting to hear descriptions of the schools that sometimes contradict what I've been taught. Specifically, Koto ryu as *I've* been shown uses much more shortened stances and footwork than most of the other ryu, tending toward standup in-fighting heavy on strikes and percussive joint-locking, trapping, etc., much like a chinese boxing style.

Shinden Fudo ryu is certainly not particularily concerned with moving fast but it often does not feel that way to the opponent. The almost casual manner from which strikes are executed from and returned to shizen can seem to come out of nowhere. From what I've seen, they are actuated by forming a "fist" with your whole body and either sort of walking into the target or with a timing where the he runs himself into it, and often both... this last point possibly being an important factor when facing a larger opponent.

With throw counters (usually written for osoto or seoi nage) it has always been very strongly emphasized to me that the rooting occurs during the opponent's entrance, not after hiploading has occured! You drop and angle away a little as he tries to get under your center--if you are significantly smaller he will have to be reaching more for this in the first place giving you more time to displace (like you mentioned for Koto ryu). The timing of this is everything. You shift your elbows to free your hands so that you can strike as you perform the jujutsu. It is also very important to affect HIS hips somehow.

One counter to seoi nage for instance involves rooting like described as he enters WHILE giving a slap to his hips that both interrupts his entrance and gives the momentary sensation he has your body against him (so he misjudges his distance) followed by a thumbdrive into the hip bowl to keep some control of his hips. You take grip with the other hand and use a body drop and roll to take him down and end up in a top mount. There are several counters that begin almost identically to this.

I have been shown some interesting ways of offsetting your center while being picked up make you near impossible to hold, which might be what your teacher was getting at? I dunno, it's a different timing from what I've seen for Shinden Fudo ryu.