[setsu nin to]

What JKD is

What is Jeet Kune Do?
A Concept 48% [ 15 ]
A Style 0% [ 0 ]
Both 51% [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 31


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craazyphil
It upsets me that most here think that Jeet Kune Do is nothing more than a concept. It is true that Bruce Lee belied against stylizing, but it is a complete martial art system. It can be divided into Bruce Lee's original JKD, and the JKD concepts that branched off of his school when he kicked Dan Inosantos out of his school for teaching something different than JKD. The JKD that I practice IS a style. It is a modified form of wing chun that incorparates western boxing and French fencing. You can find out about it at my Professor's webpage http://www.leejkd.com/about_jeet_kune_do.htm . What are your opinions and arguments?
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Li Shen Long
Most of the JKD places around here are nothing more then self defense schools, and I believe that JKD is more than a concept...Bruce Lee put a lot of effort into it and I don't think it gets the respect that it deserves.
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Draven
From what I've read in the Tao, Bruce himself says that it's a concept and nothing else. The actual style is not JKD, but Jun Fan.
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craazyphil
I maybe wrong about this first part, but I think Jun Fan was Bruce Lee's Chinese name. Anyway, he called it Jun Fan Gungfu when he started off teaching in the U.S. and later in the sixties officially named it Jeet Kune Do.
These misconceptions are dissolved at http://www.leejkd.com/about_jeet_kune_do.htm
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gojuwarrior1
in my opinion all the arts were at first a concept, but as the founders die off it becomes law, a art people swear by.eventually jkd will be more comfortable known as an art.but this is only my opinion
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GP70
Its both. Theres two approaches to learning Jeet Kune Do:
1. Learning the art that Bruce Lee developed (though this goes against Bruce's ideas, because his Jeet Kune Do was designed for himself specificlly.)
2: The JKD concept. This involves finding what works best for you and creating your own style.
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JKDDANNY
you must see that jkd is a PROCESS. it is a process of learning which is not fixed and has no limitations. i have trained with larry hartsell who was taught by bruce and many years ago he explained this to me fully. you could write pages on what jkd is but basically it is just a process of cultivating the body to its maximum potential. the lead punch is an example:
the lead punch is a straight line. it IS the fastest punch so you have got the fastest technique so your punch is the best it could be so you are at maximum potential. remember the lead punch will always be the fastest and most direct punch as you cannot re invent a straight line.
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THE GZA
Jan Fun is the system all you guys keep say JKD is. JKD is a concept, and I believe it is used before and wasn't created even by Lee. If you go to a JKD school today it is either Jan Fun, or an MMA school. JKD is nothing more than a concept I say, and the seperation of names between Jan Fun/JKD and MMA/JKD should exist even though they don't. Calling your school JKD is using Lee's fame to promote your school in my opinion.
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JKDfreak
my view on this:JKD is a concept and Jun fan Gung Fu is the style that goes with it.It is Bruce Lee's style and can be used as a basis for further progress in JKD,i do it like that.what i told you is Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.
In fact JKD is everything,every style contains JKD and JKD contains every art.t is wrong to say that JKD is MMA or only self defense.
JKD has a philosophy behind the art,which you have to be aware of.
The fact that every "JKD school" is different from one another is that it is the way of JKD.JKD is about finding your own way to perfect techniques and fighting.That's why every JKD practicioner is different from the another.That's why there is so many different school,becuz the instructors have found their own JKD, techniques and philosophy.JKD is universal ans that's why Bruce Lee's JKD is called Jun Fan Gung Fu.
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THE GZA
If JKD is every art; then I'd say that it is not MMA, but since JKD schools teach MMA, I say it is MMA.

We should just leave this up to Bruce I think.
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setsu nin to
Jeet Kune Do has long since been known as the style of no style. The art, which was formed by Bruce Lee in various stages, was finally named in the late 60's. While continuing to deny that JKD was a "style" he began to show his system to the public with great skepticism from the martial arts community and various Chinese individual who found his teachings to be discourteous to tradition.
The original art itself is a modification of Lee's first martial art style of Wing Chun Kung Fu. So many modifications in fact that it is very hard to see some of the similarities of the two systems. The blocks and hand maneuvers such as grabbing, sticking, and energy techniques have their roots in Wing Chun but the finished product is pure JKD. JKD has had such an influence in the martial art word the even the core art of Wing Chun has adopted JKD sparring techniques. The second of the three arts in the core of original JKD is French Fencing. Who can deny the speed and agility in the art of fencing. The footwork is a combining and modifying of fencing, Wing Chun, boxing movements, placements and displacements. And the final art of Western or American Boxing for the Muhammad Ali hand maneuvers and punches.
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JKDfreak
In fact Bruce looked into 26 different MA's and adpted techniques/startegies/concepts/training techniques to his arsenal and that's how he created JKD and Jun Fan Gung Fu.All these techniques,he changed them so they could fit to him and that's what JKD practicioners have to do.
Now we see in JKD a gaining influence of Muay Thai,Kali,Silat and Sambo.
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craazyphil
quote:

Originally posted by JKDfreak
In fact Bruce looked into 26 different MA's and adpted techniques/startegies/concepts/training techniques to his arsenal and that's how he created JKD and Jun Fan Gung Fu.All these techniques,he changed them so they could fit to him and that's what JKD practicioners have to do.
Now we see in JKD a gaining influence of Muay Thai,Kali,Silat and Sambo.


That's not true. JKD "concepts" people- followers of Dan Inosanto- have changed JKD and added their own crap, saying Lee would have used it "IF HE KNEW ABOUT IT". THAT is NOT Jeet Kune Do.
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Hengest

quote:

That's not true. JKD "concepts" people- followers of Dan Inosanto- have changed JKD and added their own crap, saying Lee would have used it "IF HE KNEW ABOUT IT". THAT is NOT Jeet Kune Do.



I couldn't disagree more. You only have to read The Tao . If Bruce came back and saw that JKD was frozen in time from the 60s I think he'd be absolutely horrified. That's turning JKD into the "classical mess" that Lee was so against.

I agree with JKDfreak: the art is Jun Fan gung fu, the concept is JKD.
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JKDfreak
But I think JKD is evolving,and shouldn't "ne frozen in the 60s".That's why everyone adds his own part to JKD making it unique so he can express himself completely.
Phil,don't you use the Muay Thai round kick,the clinch,BJJ groundwork,or Kali destruction techniques in your JKD????,
I do and that's what makes me different from the others.The other do it,but I adapt the technique to my JKD.
remember,JKD is unbound,JKD is freedom,JKD isn't a box where everything has to stay still,things are evolving and changing.
The reason why Muay Thai is gaining influence,is that when Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto were looking into different styles,they looked into Muay thai,but not deep enough and adapted only certain concepts to JKD like full contact sparring.After Lee's death Dan Inosanto looked further into Muay Thai with a Muay Thai specalist and discovered the real effectiveness of Muay Thai.And we can see this in the stance Bi-Jong which evolved since the beggining;In the beggining it looked like a Wing Chun stance,then like a T-stance (fencing stance).Then Bruce discovered Boxing and adapted the boxing stance to Boxing.After that Dan and Bruce discovered that the Muay Thai stance was safer for knee kicks.
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YoungSmoothB
Most people now studying JKD is missing one essential thing, Foundation. Many people say yeah a style with no style that would be so cool but check it. Bruce Lee study the pure essential foundation of his art for at least a six or seven years (which for a true MA isn't even tipping the iceberg of the art) before he crossed into western boxing and fencing. His had a strong foundation in the Wing Chun form of Sui Lim Tao and Chi Sau. He trained vigorously in the some of the other techniques of Choy Loa Fat (Forgive me if I murdered this it is 4:20 in the morning). Therefore when he came to America and started showing all of these great techniques that we had never seen before we were amazed and wanted to do it so bad. But as alot of people do commit suicide. Let me explain if you are on the top floor and push the button for the elevator are you going to jump out the window if the elevator is taking to long....No (Well some might **sigh**) So when we wanted to do these martial arts we wanted to just jump in. Ask any true martial artist who has actually trained in a art with a oriental if you want to train you must prove yourself not through physical strength but through acceptance and respect. Nothing comes easy and to do an art such as JKD (a so called style with no style) then one needs a strong understanding in the art of the style first. Such as the application of a form which may be a an advanced form in another is used in this form as a basic. Bruce Lee could do this he already was advanced, he had studied an art thoroughly before even attempting to throw stuff out, thats the reason he could use his form. He didn't just get taught a complicated wrist lock without having the basics to be able to do the form.
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JKDfreak
you're right,but most of JKD practicioner I know have a base style,including myself.before JKD i studied Jiu-Jitsu for 5 years,and then took JKD while continuing with Jiu-Jitsu.
I don't think that you need a base style for JKD,you just learn the basics Jun fan gung Fu and then evolve,my school do it this way.
i think that when you enter JKD you're first taught the basic kicks and punches,basic throws,chokes....... Then you can evolve.
However the new generations of JKD students are less influenced by wing chun and trapping.Now the influence is more Muay Thai.
Lastly I think it's good to take classes in one or 2 other styles while studying JKD,it helps to be open-minded and to discover new techniques while adapting them,simply cross-training.
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[Stg]

JKD is NOT a style,because styles restrict you to only using certain techniques,patterns,etc. JKD does not,it let's you do what you feel is best in a fight,it lets you be you.and jun fan gung fu is NOT what bruce used in fighting with jkd as the philosophy,jfgf is a style he founded when he first came to america to teach and it was simply wing chun with a slightly modified way of being street effective. then after the famous fight between him and the hung gar student who challenged him he added all the other style's techniques you see in jkd and promptly named it jkd,and THAT'S when he called his fighting jkd to name his new approach,jkd and jfgf are 2 different things. just wanted to clear that up(and for those of you who love questioning people's claims,i have researched this from many different sources including people that were close to him)

[silent rogue]

in all technicallity based on the Tao and Linda Lee's writings, JKD has been labeled as a philosophy and as an art. not techinically a style, because it is a style without a style....same as...judism -the end is nothingness without nothingness.....

you only percieve that the word 'style' limits the ability of an art if you feel style is a restrictive term. i do not. i feel 'style' is more so of a labeling technique.that gives a general idea of what someone studies. but now a days with so many people cross training and studing multiple arts. can one really say they have a set style?

no. imo

[Stg]

i think it can because despite the fact that you cross train,you're still learning styles,just at the same time. karate for example is just karate,and it has set techniques: would you see a hung gar tiger claw technique in say, shotokan? no,because shotokan has it's own thing going on.this is what i mean by restricting,specific styles only use specific techniques.

[silent rogue]

but if you say you study karate- that leave you open to the different forms within the style correct?......and then of course karate was influenced by other arts... ( im thinking way way wayyy outside the box on this) so based on it being influenced.....can we say the style is not so refined that it is not possible for variation

[Stg]

ok i'll use another style as an example: MT.would you see a CMA animal technique in MT? again,no because MT already has a set of techniques,you see what i mean?

[silent rogue]

yeah i get ya. im just tryin to ...stir the pot....shall we say? just throw out what ifs

[Ironjim]

I voted that JKD is a concept. JKD's great founder even said it was not a style, but a concept.

[MAWA]

"JKD's great founder even said it was not a style, but a concept."

Actually he said that both styles and concepts are limited and restricts you to express you completely.

But I voted that JKD is a style. My view of JKD is that it's a style, even though Bruce said he didn't believe in styles, that one only should express oneself freely without restrictions - because he is Bruce Lee, he is not JKD. JKD to me is the style he invented. I see it as a style because he had certain bacis techniques and tactics, and the name also says something about the style, that it's about interception...

Only my view.

By the way, all you people that concider JKD just being completly formless, that all styles are restricted - how does one train that way? How can you learn something that doesn't exists before you yourself have created it? Is it possible to completly train with no style, no method, no form?

[Stg]

yes it is possible- i say styles restict because as i explained,ou are limited to only being ably to do set "A" techniques,and only set "A",you understand? we train without form by using whatever we feel works best,not just what someone tells us to use.

"and the name also says something about the style, that it's about interception..."

it's your opinion i know but,it is wrong,no offense. bruce named it jkd but wished he hadn't! because he knew that once he did,people would do just what you did: mistake it for another restrictive style.