[Stg]

dunno if everyone has seen this yet or not,but for those who haven't i found a clip of matt explaining aliveness in the SBGi.

http://www.jkd-kbh.dk/sbg2.wmv

it's a big file though, so if you have dial up i would be weary of trying to dl it.

[Tease T Tickle]

Aliveness is a prime example of why I dislike the Straight Blast Gym and others like them.

Here's an idea, training forms and two or three step patterns to develop mechanics is bad because it does not train the actual skills necessary for effective fighting. So, let's train those things like timing by constantly training with active resistance.

Fantastic, I'm sold.

But then here's what SBG et Al. have done. Let's take that idea from above and slap a name on it, for example aliveness. So, now, whenever an SBG guy goes to another school or talks to an artist from whatever other school that artist goes to, the SBG guy can't stop ranting about how great training with aliveness is and because nobody else in the rest of the world uses the term aliveness in that manner, the other artist is lost and the SBG guy assumes the other guy is a dipshit with mediocre training.

Ideas should not have names, names are arbitrary, ideas are specific. When a person or group applies a name to an idea, they assert a certain level of control over the method of thinking of those who also adopt that name for that concept. It is not something I will accomodate.

[zefff]

I only had one eye on the clip as I was at work when I watched it but the chess analogy confused me. The bloke said that the best way to learn chess is to play it. I understand why he says that but what confused me is that the way I see it, you still have to learn and understand the rules and moves before you can play - otherwise I would be doing any move I like.

Why cant we do both? Sometimes I prefer 'dead' work so I can concentrate on my body mechanics without the distraction of having to compete.

[setsu nin to]

I saw these muvie that Stg post...

I can only say that muvie is totaly boring, its made totaly amateur, techniques sucks...

[8LimbsScientist]

Originally Posted by zefff

I only had one eye on the clip as I was at work when I watched it but the chess analogy confused me. The bloke said that the best way to learn chess is to play it. I understand why he says that but what confused me is that the way I see it, you still have to learn and understand the rules and moves before you can play - otherwise I would be doing any move I like.

Why cant we do both? Sometimes I prefer 'dead' work so I can concentrate on my body mechanics without the distraction of having to compete.

He did actually cover that within the video. He mentioned that you would need to know the rules of chess and how each piece was supposed to move. His point was that once you knew all this, you couldn't run drills in which you just move your pieces to a certain spot and your opponent does the same, because you'd be missing the essential part of chess competition, and thats outwitting your opponent.

If you think about it, the techniques themselves are the easiest parts of martial arts. I'm sure we both know people who know all the techniques and can do them well in drills and on the bag, but can't fight at all.

The idea of Aliveness, as SBG uses it, is that you don't go full contact resistance from the minute you pick up a new technique. The resistance builds gradually, but you spend very little time in the first "learning" phase. Its like the focus pad example. I can still learn the proper mechanics of a punch when my pad holder is is moving around and throwing punches, but at the same time I'm also developing timing and reflexes.

[Bushi]

I liked it. and saved it to my hard drive.

[zefff]

cheers 8limb. That makes sense and I hear wot u say about people who have good form but cant fight. But I also know people who can fight but have no form. Wether this is a good thing or not is another matter but if a man trains, he should train to make the most of what he has to make the most of himself and his technique.

Chess pieces can only perform in a predetermined manner. They cannot exceed the parameters of that manner and they cannot minimalise the efforts needed to perform the moves. They cannot deviate, even slightly or have failures in their ability to perform moves or "technique".

I think "technique" is a complex study, even in a minimalist art. I personally cannot leave it behind. Because my body mechanics and economy in motion is the root of my art. If something works in live sparring I need to make it better in the mirror or in my mind. This is just me. Live work is a great part of the anyones training but I see how it is right to say dead training is crap??? What about visualisation? Is that "dead" too?

Im not dissing SBG at all, infact I think its great because these things are good for forcing us to thinbk about what we are doing. Infact to have one extreme (alive), you have to have (dead) no? I would like to keep to the middle way.

I will watch the clip properly again later cheers!

[setsu nin to]

Moust things that he said in that video clip are OK, but he didnt say anything new. In my opoinion that comparation with chess sucks, also if in moust traditional schools practicioners learn to be static during the fight, than they will be static in real fight too, which means that you may easy find static fighter too. So he broke his own theory...

[Stg]

Originally Posted by zefff

I prefer 'dead' work so I can concentrate on my body mechanics without the distraction of having to compete.

It is a misconception that the SBG guys only spar and never drill. In fact, about 80% of the training at the SBG involves drilling, but performing those drills with aliveness, using progressive resistance as a way to ensure that whatever techniques we are training, in any range, will be functional and translate to something that is actually useful in a combative situation. The teaching method is known as the ?I? Method and it is broken down accordingly.

Introduction
The technique/concept is introduced or "taught". This usually begins with a demonstration then the class follows with little or no resistance. The curriculums of most traditional martial arts stay at this point. While we prefer not take more time than is necessary at this stage, the emphasis here is still on slow, detailed, precision and orientation. What is important here if for the athlete to understand how and why a particular move works and receives the proper coaching to ensure good form before moving along. This stage never stands alone and is always followed by Isolation.

Isolation
The majority of the class is spent at this stage. The specific skill or skills are isolated and drilled against progressive resistance to help acquire a proper sense of timing. This is where the athlete learns how to make the move work for him/herself, along the way learning to make the proper technical adjustments according to the pace at which they wrestle, their particular body type, and of course, that of their opponents'. The isolation stage is critical to enhancing performance because it bridges the gap between merely learning random techniques and all out sparring, this is where the athlete must ultimately take responsibility for their own growth and progress within the art.

Integration
This is where the skill is brought back into the specific game through free sparring. Stand Up, Clinch, Ground or the overall game where everything comes together. The athlete will now be able to apply the timing gained through isolation sparring in this setting and if the opportunity presents itself he/she will begin to add new tools and techniques to their game with confidence

[Hengest]

I'm still at a loss as to what all the fuss is about with SBG. They have contributed absolutely nothing new to MA training, yet Matt Thornton has an army of bitches who proclaim him the Second Coming.

If they've done anything for me personally, it's make me aware of how much crap must be out there that people actually see this stuff as prophetic.