[Twitch]

Chinese styles that did the ground fighting thing? I think the Shaolin did, but I'm not sure.

[Hengest]

You might want to check out an old thread we did on kuo ch'uan: http://www.fightauthority.com/module...648&highlight=

[Twitch]

Well, hasn't anyone ever told black panta that he is a genius? See this is why I never think of myself as great, cause I keep on learning stuff. Okay, I learning is always good.

Thanks a whole lot.

[zed]

every single KF style has some sort of ground fighting involved, you just need to really look at what your sifu is teaching and make it yours, KF to me is like a fingerprint...its looks different for each person, my KF would look different than yours, i would bet a lot of money that your sifu has taught you ground fighting, you just dont see it yet. keep up the hard work and you will. or maybe thats just for me....who knows.

[zefff]

Zed,

how can u be taught groundfighting and not see it yet? Right now that sounds bogus to me. I could equate it to me teaching a 5 year old maths. If I explain how long division works but he doesnt get it...he aint got no math! The practice is pointless!

Also what is the point of me teaching some long divison and having my 5 year old concentrating his focus on digesting that while trying to subliminally sneak in some multiplication?

Why try and bullshit that my CMA has some grappling? Why not just come to a conclusion that groundwork was not as important to the fathers of my art? Maybe I am wrong but to me it seems common sense that groundfighting would be inferior to forces roaming about with spears, swords and even wooden weapons! Im not saying there is no grappling in any CMA but if you dont specifically and regularly drill and spar clinch, throws, takedowns, submissions and positions then forget it! Sorry but I know I dont do half of that. I might be able to survive with a dumb thug and yeah Ive got a couple of throws and takedowns but I know I aint got shit on the ground really.

Sorry to go on but I personally cant stand all that 'hidden meaning' stuff. If its hidden its pointless and it wont make us any better if we cant understand it and make it work. If the hidden meaning argument was valid then by that logic your kwoon wouldnt advertise and you would have to do some detective work just to find they exist.

[zed]

i have been taking KF for a few years now and when i was just starting there was a lot i didnt see.....if you see everything as soon as its shown to you, well......you're the badest brain alive, good for you.....but being that you curse so much im gonna guess either you're young, and/ or a punk (dont bash what you dont understand, learn about it 1st). i dont understand some of the people on this forum. all you do is bash and if you re read what i wrote you would see you're reading it wrong. now lets see if you can reply without cursing...i doubt it, but we will see.....i feel sorry for your teacher......or maybe i just got lucky with mine.

[zed]

by not looking at the "hidden meaning" stuff you mentioned, you will get beat by it one day....dont shrug off things because you dont understand it...look into it and then decide if it's for you or not, you're just cheating yourself. oh well, i can only do what works for me (and you the same i guess)

[zefff]

Whoop-di-doo I said bullshit. Sorry. Even though you didnt address all my questions and points within my post, I'll address yours.

1) I might not see everything but what I do see I ask about.

2) I curse because I am unhappy.

3) People have the right to bash or nut ride.

4) I can read English quite well because I am English.

5) "...i feel sorry for your teacher......or maybe i just got lucky with mine."

I thought I would quote you on that becasue it is a ridiculous statement. Are you implying that I bring shame on my Sifu while you are lucky because it is easy for you to make him or her feel proud? So do you train for that purpose? Is me asking questions and being unhappy enough to curse a shame unto my Sifu?

My Sifu does not control my tongue and regardless, what is on my tongue does not reflect the contents of my heart. IMHO your quick judgement is a weakness.

Living to please others is the road of a pet dog. If your happy pleasing then cool but I train to please myself. If I piss of my Sifu he'll tell me, I'll think about it and we will have a disscussion. What has that got to do with you and your moral standards?

peace

[zed]

my comment about you "shaming" your sifu was confermed in your last statement...thank you for prooving me right.....but seriously i respect my sifu a lot (as im sure you do too) its not a fancy place with fancy tools....i helped him rebuild all the stations (for the animal styles) and helped him train forms to the lower levels while he trained the vets. he is one of my best friend and i didnt even know him 5 years ago. the karate kid bad guy attitude MA seems to attract will never stop i understand that. but there are still some people that train old school because imo it is still the better. but i have a feeling that neither of us will change the others mind.....so, oh well. there is a time and a place (well maybe not a place it can be anywhere) for fighting...to me the more i learn the more i dont want to use it, but i have had to and i will again im sure....but spirit in KF comes 1st...i hope im not the only one here that believes that.

[zefff]

Oh boy, Zed mate it was me who made the comment about "shaming", not you. You only insinuated as much so Im afraid that what was "confermed" [sic] was more than you might have first imagined.

If I shame my Sifu it is because I think freely and question him constantly. I am sorry if this is beneath your standard but he has taught me that any combat situation is like a conversation or debate with questions asked and answered. If you cant answer a question what happens next? If I want to prepare for a debate I want to be as well-informed as possible, yes or no?

But who cares anyway because you airing your judgements is only another of the implements you use to reaffirm your good moral fortifications. Me being 'bad' makes you feel better about youself it seems. Even you living to please others makes you feel like a good person and thus better than those who dont live like you. Everything you do is selfish! Moral high ground is like a drug for you and I gave you a fix.

I can assume all this because you did not answer my questions pointedly. Now if I equate this to combat, imagine I assume certain things as fact and then when I find myself in a real situation I try to rely on the assumption - what happens? We dont really know because we have never gained any basic truth or science from the practice. We are gambling on assumptions? I dont like to gamble thats why I ask! So I can understand and so have a good knowledge of my own capabilities. I dont do groundwork so I would never gamble on the hidden meanings coming out all of a sudden when Im on my back with someone like Bushi on top.

You talk about old school training, what is that? How do you know what or how I train? All I talked about was how I ask questions. Does that all of a sudden make me some ill-mannered, bad boy? I didnt assume anything of you, I asked questions and if you re-read you'll see I actually talked about "my CMA" when I mentioned bullshit, not yours. What is old-school? What exactly do you mean? How do you want to "change my mind"? Do you want me to stop asking questions, stop cursing, help my Sifu more and believe that the hidden meanings in my forms will make me more powerful?

If you read back I'd hope you would see I never wanted to change your mind or make you do anything. I just wanted to ask how you can make something work when you dont actually know it?

peace