[EvilScott]

Originally Posted by themeecer

The brothers had a falling out. Master Hiang The changed several of the trappings of the art and claimed it was a total separate art. His style can't be 'more Chinese' than ours .. it is the same exact art.

I guessed this much.

The problem is, though - that he claims the school never became more Chinese to appease Indonesian authorities. He even says the school had a completely different name.

I understand you are told "well he's just making it up", but do you understand my position? I have just as much reason to believe him as you.

Upon closer examination the arts are very similar - the biggest giveaway is the belt requirements - Chung Yen pictures show much more Chinese stances and movements. But Chung Yen Shaolin and Shaolin Do both still much more similarities to Karate (which was taught in Indonesia during the time the The brothers were there) than to the styles taught at Fukien like Wing Chun and Hung Gar.

[EvilScott]

Originally Posted by themeecer

I strongly disagree here. My governing principles are much more kung fu than karate, especially the further into black belt I go.

OK, here is a question I wanted answered that Thraddu missed. Tell me your governing principles. Not "honor" and all the symbolic principles - I'm talking principles that govern physical technique.

[themeecer]

I was training while the brothers were still together. In fact Master Hiang The signed my yellow belt certificate. At this time he agreed with everything his brother was saying. Later when he pulled away he altered the history a small bit. I have no ill feelings towards him. He is an awesome martial artist.

[themeecer]

Originally Posted by EvilScott

OK, here is a question I wanted answered that Thraddu missed. Tell me your governing principles. Not "honor" and all the symbolic principles - I'm talking principles that govern physical technique.

Let me contemplate this for a while. It is late and I have things to do before bed. Unlike most of my answers that I can fire off quickly, this one I want to give more thought. Until then.

[EvilScott]

Originally Posted by themeecer

Let me contemplate this for a while. It is late and I have things to do before bed. Unlike most of my answers that I can fire off quickly, this one I want to give more thought. Until then.

I'm suprised - most Kung Fu practicioners learn their principles very early seeing as they govern all technique. I would of though a man of 20 years training in his art would know the principles as well as he knows his phone number.

[themeecer]

We do not put it into words like many do. We have governing principles .. they affect how I do all my forms. I can look at others and tell when they are using my same governing principles. I just want the time to give you a well thought out answer.

Until then I will give you the Kobra Kai's principiles. Strike first, strike hard, show no mercy.

[EvilScott]

As an example of what exactly I'm looking for, here are Wing Chun's principles...

Guard the Center
Face the Point of Contact
Economy of Movement
Touch Reflexes (Chi Sao)
Watch the Leading Elbow
Use Linear Striking Action
Avoid Fighting Force Against Force
Train to Use Two Arms at the Same Time
Uses Pressure Points to Make Striking Techniques More Effective
Uses the Same Meridian Pressure Points as Treatment of Injuries

This is the kind of thing I'm looking for. Not generic principles like "hit hard" or "the pointy end goes in the other man."

If you do not put your principles into words, how do they govern your techniques? How do you know you are doing your forms with correct emphasis, besides a teacher's approval?

[themeecer]

Oh I know that, I know what you were asking for. My ending was a joke.

Edit: Here let me give you a quick partial list. Not even a list ... just two or three things that instantly came to mind, because I was specifically using them today.

1) All blocks can be attacks and vice versa.
2) Don't fight in a straight line, moving back and forth.... advancing and retreating from your opponent. Either 'corner' their attacks or even better, try to get 2 steps ahead and attack their rear.
3) Attack on their move.

Heck .. now a days I don't even fight from a stance. I now stand straight up and like to scratch the side of my face while my other hand is tucked under that elbow, it is very similar to one of the hands in Pa Qua. I use that or I totally have my hands to my sides, limp. I am constantly moving from side to side. I block with circular attacks, I like when I can spin them a little with my block and then with a step or two I am behind them. Then explode with attacks to their back side.

You do have to realize .. we have a ton of material!! A ton. The governing principles of one that just studied our internal arts or only one of those singularly would look different from one that only studied our mantis. I have begun to favor our internal arts more than anything lately. Our meditation practices have been insane for me. So my governing principles have been changing and will continue to do so as I age and further my studies.

Did that help any?

[themeecer]

Originally Posted by EvilScott

If you do not put your principles into words, how do they govern your techniques? How do you know you are doing your forms with correct emphasis, besides a teacher's approval?

Adopting the 'spirit' of the animal you are imitating. Flowing from move to move. Generating power at the waist. Strength of my strikes coming from the floor. LOW STANCES!!! A big pet peeve of mine.

[setsu nin to]

themeecer

Ok, I have one question.
Your friend and teacher (Thraddu) post how many people say that Shaolin Do is similar to Karate and TKD. Well in my opinion Shaolin Kung Fu and Karate/TKD are not so similar so that someone would replace them. Also why are there some weapons that were not used in Shaolin?

Well i have few more questions but about them later.