[Gazelle]

Probably...seems reasonable enough, but someone can have a stronger grip then others through certain kinds of labour, i'm sure...

I'm not sure how 'martial art specific' such a thing is...my point is, that, you asked specifically about how a tiger KF person would fair against a muay thai...i was just pointing out, through your reasoning, presuming it follows through, you're not just examining the class of 'tiger KF guys and girls', they are just a part of that class...oh dear, i think that my mathematical rigour is coming through...

On a side point, i can assure you that i am most definately not in that 'class'.

[Bloodybirds]

It is apparent that few here understand the general principles of fu jow pai, or tiger claw. I do agree with the assessment that it depends upon the artist but...in general principle, a fu jow practitioner, like a ying jow one, will condition the hand to penetrate skin to the bone and beyond. The fujow, unlike the hungar tiger/crane, uses its tiger five finger to rip and tear the skin into the muscle, bone, tissue. Thus, the practitioner would not merely grab the target (jeez...lol) but lock the fingers in and rip repeatedly. At the same time, being a southern style, its leg techniques would effectively hit low powerfully. A muy thai boxer would be vulnerable to these rips, sweeps, and low attacks when bringing the knee up or elbow across for the thrusts. Also, a fujow, unlike dragon style's figure eight attacking pattern, will not attack head on but at angles. In traditional tiger crane, the tiger will strike low while the crane strikes high. Just like a muy thai will train shins, and elbows, so will the fu jow train hands for the same destructive purposes. The best locking/grabbing styles of kung fu, generally incorporating the animal plus effective chin na, include northern preying mantis, northern/southern eagle claw, and southern white crane.

Hope this helps. Again, forget the movies and look up artists like Wai Hong, Tak Eng, and the guy from Vanishing Son. Hsieh-Hsieh.

Wushu, you should know better on this one, since you were exposed a little to my Shaolin master's tiger at the seminar in Austin...maybe he should have shown you further with tiger and dragon.

[Gazelle]

I suppose that explains why it is so named 'tiger'...given what tigers claws do...isn't it sometimes annoying how you can never find the right emoticon, no matter how much choice you have. lol I suppose it reflects how many varities of expression, there are.

[Haas]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9IODnKOEF...elated&search=

i found this neat video when looking for Wai Yuen Tong

[Bloodybirds]

Haas, this is different from Wei Hong, the fu jow master who had a school in China town NYC up until recently. This Wei would be in his mid to late 70s by now and Tak Eng is or was his senior until they had a falling out.

I do not know this guy on the rooftop, though interesting against a capoiera practitioner. My guy can be found at www.fujowpai.com. Also go to Google and type in Tak Eng for his info as the senior to Wai Hong.

Hope this helps. They were a sister school to my Ying Jow master's school in the 80s and 90s (Sigung Leung Shum) along with Frankie Yee's Hung Gar School (Pedro Cepera Yee and Ty Nunez as some conflicting disciples).

Hope this helps.

[Haas]

the link didnt work

[Bloodybirds]

It worked when I put in www.fujowpai.com.....let me know or google Wai hong and it will give you the appropriate address. Sorry!

[Haas]

http://www.fujowpai.com/

thats it right ?

[Bloodybirds]

I just got on there to confirm and that address took me right to it!

[bamboo]

BB- With what you wrote in mind and not trying to be a jerk but...
The idea is there but how can you actually train in way to really practice effectively ripping and tearing muscle with a resisting and spontaneous partner?

The timing, force and sheer tenacity needed to tear and rip to the bone of man both clasping and driving your head down and bringing his knees up full force would be incredible. You can practice knees to the head in both practice with gear and for real in the ring, can the same be said for flesh ripping on a real man?

Again, I don't want to be a jerk but I want to point out both sides of the coin. Getting caught in a clinch can be a horrifying experience.

-bamboo