[BLACK PANTA]

I was having a discussion with my close friend, who is a MMA enthusiast and practitioner. We were discussing the "come back" of traditional arts in MMA. With superstars like Lyoto Machida (Karate/Kung Fu), Anderson Silva (TKD/BJJ), Stephan Bonnar (TKD,BJJ), Karo Parysian (Judo), Yoshida (Judo), Cung Le (Sanshou/Hung Gar), George St. Pierre (Kyokushin) and a host of others, who had a hard core base in the TMAs and translated them to success in the cage. These people obviously trained their TMA as a budo.
The traditional arts have sneaked their way back into the mainstream fight scene. I believe that the MMAists are now seeing the TMA as more than a benefit to their game. These traditional arts were time and battlefield tested. They hold the essence of fighting. It's funny how these stars and their fighting style are considered unorthodox when they use the very basics of their traditional arts in the ring/cage. To add they are also successful.
Do you think that MMA fighters will now see the benefit to "cross train" in a traditional art?

P.S. my bjj instructor now considers BJJ a traditional art and refers it as a Budo.

[admin]

The key thing about those fighters that you mentioned is that they were first traditional martial artists that became MMA fighters. Which I am a HUGE advocate for. I love traditional martial arts fighters. So much more respect, honor, and dedication. What I don't necessarily like is the pure MMA "fighter". The guy who just gets into MMA to "beat some heads in".

Unfortunately it seems that most people who might have gotten into TMA in the past are now gravitating towards MMA and just "becoming a fighter". They don't have the same values that many of us have because of our martial arts background.

[Wilhelm von Wänkenstein]

Far as I'm concerned, the line between ancient and modern, pure and syncretic is highly arbitrary and artificial, anyhow. Techniques and combative doctrines come and go and change with the times, but ethics - including a work ethic - are timeless. The precious few truly high-level MMA competitors I've thus far met are too busy looking for ways to improve themselves to waste energy discriminating between traditional and modern - a spirit very true to the core of budo as it was meant to be, I would like to believe.

The main weakness of the TMA community up till recent years was its relative lack of intensity and realism in training, not by any means flawed technique or concept - as it is, almost all modern martial arts are based on concepts and techniques inherited from older systems. The MMA revolution gave the TMA community what it needed most - a savage kick in the pants as a wakeup call, and now we are beginning to see the fruits thereof.

On another note, the TMA community has also been constantly prone to endless wars over piddling minutiae such as lineage and microscopic differences in theory and practice, which diverted attention and energy from truly important matters such as remaining relevant to the times. In part, this was due to traditional martial arts being in fact fossilised culture from earlier periods of history, when close-quarters physical violence was far less regulated than it is today, and the issue of the use of force far less complex. As our world became more complex and the use of physical violence a more and more contentious issue, traditional martial arts lost a good deal of relevance to the times.

That said, the so-called MMA fighting systems are far from innocent of the above behaviour - the arguments over Gracie jiujitsu lineage and the subtle nuances of a simple armbar alone could fill a book.

[bamboo]

Interesting post Panta.

Did you notice that every single art you mentioned, not one was actually a "TMA"? Bjj, TKD, Kyokushin Karate, Judo, etc- these are all gendai budo or variations there of.

MMA has as pointed out by Willy simply put a spotlight on the way training is carried out. With all these chances for people to go out and test themselves in the relatively safe environment that is the cage/ring, the fight has been put back into gendai budo "crowd".

I love a certain type of unnamed japanese styled jiujitsu, they have in the last 15 years gone from a kata based drilling school to one that spars intensly and on a regular basis. These guys are slowly turning out martial artists that can really fight (LOL, imagine that!) but are still keeping around the budo aspect that appeals to so many.

The techniques have not changed, the way they are trained certainly has.

But I agree with you Panta on the level that these "perceived traditional arts" are making a comeback as far as mma goes, but as far as the business world goes- they never left and are now and have been stronger than ever.

-bamboo